Sir Isaac Newton and Judaism
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Why would God hurt someone He truly loves?
The road of life is a bumpy ride.
Some people have more bumps than others. But everyone has them.
The question is, why? Why does God make life so challenging?
God loves each and every one of us unconditionally. His love is the most genuine love that exists because it depends on nothing. His love is bigger than our mistakes and insecurities. His love for us is infinitely deep because He is infinitely deep. It will never cease like He will never cease.
Why would God hurt someone He truly loves?
Can you think of an instance where you would, in fact, hurt someone you love?
Can you think of an instance where you would, in fact, hurt someone you love? There isn’t a loving mother in the world who has not brought her child to a dentist despite the fact that the drilling will hurt. She might even have to hold him down during the process. Loving parents will subject their child to lifesaving surgery, even though the recovery will be painful.
We will hurt someone we love when the outcome is worth the pain. Preserving your teeth is worth a half-hour of painful drilling. Survival outweighs six months of post-op. There are times we will hurt a person we love because we love them.
We make the common mistake of thinking that pain is bad. Pain may be undesirable or unpleasant, but it’s not bad. The proof is that we will give ourselves pain at times. We go to the gym or take an injection. We climb mountains and give birth. These activities are painful. Yet we engage in them, enthusiastically, because the pain is worth it.
We don’t really mind pain. What we mind is pointless pain. But if there is a point to the pain, we engage in it.
A striking analogy to this idea is made by the great Chasidic master, Rabbi Kolonymus Kalman Shapira, who was known as the Piaseczner Rebbe, the Rabbi of the Warsaw Ghetto. Rabbi Shapira suffered the tortures of the Holocaust and spent three years in the Warsaw Ghetto. After losing his loved ones, he was killed by the Nazis in a labor camp. With tremendous faith and strength, he taught Torah in the ghetto, inspiring the masses despite the hell they were living through. He even wrote a searing book about faith while he was there, titled Aish Kodesh, Holy Fire. In one of his earlier works, Chovat HaTalmidim (A Student’s Obligation, Chapter 12) he writes, “Stand a farmer to shake his sickle without a stalk or weeds to cut, he couldn’t keep it up for half an hour.” Rabbi Shapira is pointing out that human beings will accept pain unless there is no underlying purpose. If there is meaning to the pain, we will withstand it.
Rabbi Kolonymus Kalman Shapira, the Piaseczner Rebbe
Amazingly, there are times when we even take pleasure in the pain itself. We pay premium membership fees to the gym and workout. Feel the burn! We run marathons and love it, despite the sore muscles.
People confuse comfort for pleasure, choosing to run away from challenge and pain. Genuine pleasure necessarily comes through pain and exertion. As the Piaseczner Rebbe so succinctly points out in Chovat HaTalmidim (Chapter 9), “The only thing that can be accomplished without work is rotting in the grave. Nothing more.” One who is willing to pay the price of exertion to accomplish will enjoy the effort, even though it hurts.
And that’s why life is a bumpy road. You want those whom you love to attain real pleasure.
Our personal challenges have been calibrated to give us the opportunity to become stronger, to bring out our inner potential.
Every bump is placed by a Being who loves you deeply. Our personal challenges have been calibrated to give us the opportunity to become stronger, to bring out our inner potential. If we embrace the challenge and grow, the greatness we will attain will be worth the pain of what we went through. Just as a workout builds physical muscles, exertion through life’s challenges builds inner muscles. The bumps in our life’s road are our personal chin-up bars.
One of the most deeply satisfying pleasures in life is mastering our self-development. The Piaseczner Rebbe (Derech Hamelech, Rosh Hashana, Leil Alef, 5691) says that a person who builds himself, specifically through challenge, will experience a wellspring of happiness from becoming who he can, despite the pain he is going through. This can be experienced even in the Warsaw Ghetto.
The Piaseczner Rebbe (Chovat HaTalmidim, Chapter 4), writes, “The amount of work necessary to acquire something corresponds to the value of what is being attained. Silly and worthless items can be acquired without much labor, while precious items require work to obtain.” You are precious and who you can become is precious. While it may take much effort, self-mastery is worth it. Your inner greatness is worth fighting for.
So why would a loving God cause me pain?
Because He loves me..
This article is based on Rabbi Meir B. Kahane's higly acclaimed A Fire in the Darkness: Guidance for Growth When Life Hurts, a masterful guide for personal growth based on the monumental work Aish Kodesh authored by the Piaseczner Rebbe. The Rebbe wrote Aish Kodesh during the Holocaust while in the Warsaw Ghetto and in it addresses the weighty issues of pain and suffering specifically in light of a good G-d. The Rebbe gives insightful and practical guidance for growth during even the most painful of times and in doing so powerfully demonstrates that there is nothing people go through that they can’t grow from- even a Holocaust. In A Fire in the Darkness, Rabbi Kahane expounds upon the Rebbe’s wisdom, providing the guidance that we desperately seek today.
A Fire in the Darkness can be purchased at https://menuchapublishers.com/ or from Amazon and eBay or from fine Jewish bookstores around the globe.
We now have the ability to observe the world in ways in which our ancestors could not. We can see with our own eyes the roles that randomness and spontaneity play in our lives. We know that seemingly insignificant events can have far reaching and lasting effects. There is no evidence whatsoever of an intelligence guiding these effects. It does nothing for our understanding of the world to impose the notion of such an intelligence into our thinking.
Our lives are influenced by an unfathomable number of uncontrolled events. We should revel in our appreciate of this world for its reality, unobscured by beliefs in a supernatural controller.
If you want to have a greater understanding of life, then study the creatures around us who manage without the burden of religious beliefs.
Lets talk theoretically for a moment. Suppose Gd (who you may not believe exists) would come to you and tell you that what you wrote in this comment is wrong. He explains that nothing is random or uncontrolled. Theoretically, if you KNEW it was Gd talking, would you delete your comment? Are you willing to say Gd is wrong? The Torah actually claims that nothing is random, nothing is uncontrolled. If so, shouldn't the debate be whether or not Gd wrote the Torah? Because if He did, you would be arguing on Gd. Your write there is "no evidence..." Incorrect. There is compelling evidence (see aish.com or for ex. jewishclarity.com) that Gd wrote the The Torah and if so there IS evidence that nothing is random. Shouldnt the discussion be whether or not Gd wrote the Torah?
If the Torah tells us that nothing is random yet there is abundant compelling evidence that there are random processes in nature, then that would "prove" that the Torah could not have been written by God. The question becomes whether your evidence to the contrary is more compelling than the evidence of randomness.
For those of us who accept evolution as a fact, and even for those who don't, the question becomes "why does the existence of evil give us a competitive advantage?" If a community which managed to destroy evil would be stronger than one which hadn't, then it would dominate and we would eliminate evil. We are forced to conclude that evil is essential and we are forced to consider the profound implications of this fact.
Thank you for your reply. You wrote "there is abundant compelling evidence that there are random processes in nature". Do you mean that since things happen that cannot be explained by nature, that is a proof that there is no GD? Perhaps the opposite? How did it happen?
Is the proof in the fact that you don't see WHY a being would cause such a process to occur? That, is not philosophically compelling. The Torah's perspective of GD is that He is infinitely deep. Unless you are as well, logic dictates that you may be incapable of understanding Him fully. So we are back to the original question. Did Gd write the Torah?
Your question reg evil is more of a query than a proof. If GD exists, the question is just an interesting question. So the real question is, does He exist?
No, in several fields of science, the understanding of randomness is essential in explaining natural processes. The science is the exact opposite of what you are thinking. It is BECAUSE we understand the role of randomness that we are able to explain these natural processes. You need to have some discussions with microbiologists or physicists or mathematicians to gain a better understanding of the real world.
The question isn't whether God exists but whether God interacts with mankind in the ways that you claim.
Understanding the nature of evil in our society is vitally important in trying to build better, more stable and successful communities. Saying that we have commandments and that will solve society's problems has proven insufficient.
Once again we, we have come full circle back to the same point. The Torah claims that GD interacts with mankind in the ways that I claim. They are not my claims, they are the Torah's. Whether or not the claims are true depends on whether the Torah is true.
This discussion should not be about the provability or reasonability of the details of the Torah. Rather about the provability of the Torah. If the Torah is true, its details are true.
(By the way, it is exactly the messages of the Torah that have heightened the moral level of civilization and built better, more stable, and successful communities. From social justice to value of life. Judaism taught the world. I recommend the book "WorldPerfect" By Rabbi Ken Spiro. There is likely an article by him on this site on the topic.)
BTW, I'm surprised by the belief of so many Jews that the Torah was literally written by God. Unlike the Qur'an in Islam, I didn't think that this was an essential belief of Judaism.
The Torah says He wrote it, literally. Why would we assume He didn't?
Which verse are you referring to? I think that you may be misinterpreting it.
The Qur'an says that it is the literal word of Allah. Why would we assume that He didn't?
Many have sincerely believed that God was communicating directly with them. How do you distinguish between "a prophet" and a delusional person?
Many books describe supernatural events. Why would you assume that exactly one of them is not fictious?
See Deuteronomy chapter 4, for example.
In any case your point is extremely valid. How do we KNOW that the Torah is from GD? Many religions make similar claims. "How do you distinguish between 'a prophet' and a delusional person?" is a crucial question, I couldn't agree more.
Once again we have come full circle. Our claim that the Torah is from GD is based on evidence. Without honestly exploring the evidence, the conversation goes around in circles.
This website has articles with evidence that GD wrote the Torah. But for a more thorough analyses I recommend dovidgottlieb.com and jewishclarity.com.
Deuteronomy chapter 4 reports that Moses told the children of Israel that he was teaching them commandments of the Lord your God. The chapter reports that Moses reminded the people that they had stood at Horeb and heard God's voice. Anyone could write such things in a book and many have!
This is the only "full circle" in the conversation: using the claims of the Torah itself as the evidence that it is of supernatural origin.
I have examined some of the articles on the sites that you have recommended but I haven't found one that is at all compelling in this vein. Please be more specific.
The fact that such websites and articles need to be written is substantial evidence that I am by no means alone among Jews in viewing "divine origin" as a fringe view.
Yes, you are making a very thoughtful point: The truth of the Torah cannot be proven by the fact that the Torah itself says its true! Anyone could have written that! Agreed. I was only responding to your request for a verse in which the Torah claims GD wrote the Torah. The next question is... Is the Torah from GD? That needs evidence of which there is substantial and compelling.
A tip: You won't get to the bottom of this from a casual glance at (and quick rejection of) an article on a website. You must be committed to truth. If you read an article and didn't find it compelling, ask a question! Tear it a apart! Poke holes in it! You can chat with Rabbis on this site or contact the Rabbis on the other sites I referenced
You are a Rabbi and I have asked you to cite specific evidence that the Torah is "from God". You have been unable to do so. If there was compelling evidence, you would have pointed to it by now. You cannot expect me to search for something that I know doesn't exist nor to waste time poking holes in every fallacious arguments.
You only need ONE argument. Writers who write articles with multiple arguments know that their arguments are full of holes. They hope that people will be fooled by a multitude of false arguments; if one argument doesn't fool us, maybe another one will.
It is you making the claim and so it is on you to provide the evidence to back it up.
Also... fringe view? Most of the world accepts it (Christians, Muslims & Jews…).
Fringe VIEW - in relation to the worlds population - just might be correct? There are supposedly around 9 BILLION people in the world today. The Chr-stians & Muslims - account for a little over a BILLION MEMBERS EACH - THE JEWS - AROUND 16 MILLION PLUS. That leaves quite a few billion others - of varying beliefs. As the saying goes: "To those who believe - no explanation is necessary" - to those who don't believe - like ADS & others - NO EXPLANATION WILL DO"! With those who don't believe - there is ENDLESS SPAGHETTI RATIONALE. As well as UNFOUNDED - & SOME IMAGINARY RATIONALIZATIONS - being used by believers - to JUSTIFY their belief(s). NONE of them - have a VALID DOCUMENT FROM G-D - authorizing them to SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF. EVEN IF THEY SAY SO. I'm a BELIEVER!
I was intending to say "fringe view among Jews". I don't know if there is a way to count the number of Jews who believe that the Torah is "from God" relative to the entire Jewish population, which is also difficult to count.
There's no point in giving you an answer - it won't be accepted anyway.
Clearly, you have never opened the Qur'an. It does tells us that God gave the Torah to the Children of Israel, however, it says that the Jews willfully corrupted the Torah. Furthermore, it says that the Jews rejected the prophet Jesus, breaking their covenant and were punished by having the Land of Israel taken from them. A final prophet, Muhammad, was sent to the Jews and he, too, was rejected.
This is fundamental to why the Muslims do not, and never will, accept the Jewish State of Israel. Israelis need to read the Qur'an to understand what it is that they are fighting.
And, once again, you are making a claim without evidence, namely, that most Christians and Jews believe that the Bible is "from God" and that this constitutes "most of the world".
I attended the Aish Discovery Program in Jerusalem this year and highly recommend it. The Discovery Program features many brilliant speakers, many of which are former college students who left college when they realized the authenticity of the Torah and it's ways. They provide indisputable proof that God wrote the Torah and that nothing happens by chance.
Thank you for your comment. Are these 3 videos relevant to what you are recommending? Aish Discovery Seminar - YouTube
I would be interested to hear the ONE thing that you found most persuasive. (It would be a lot to discuss everything in nearly 2.5 hours of video). Thanks again.
Actually, Aish.com is in the process of creating an online version of Discovery, so be on the lookout!
It looks like the first and last videos are the same, but I would strongly recommend watching the first two. The video is a buildup and there's no way i can just tell you one main effective point, as each point leads into the next.
#2 comment b)
We have to consider what the motivation of these scribes might have been. These religious people had witnessed the destruction of God's Chosen People. How were they to explain it? Is the role of God in these stories consistent with this context? Is the selection of the stories and their presentation consistent with an attempt to understand what "displeased" God and led him to destroy His Nation?
#3 Leviticus Chapter 25
28:55
the problem says we're not gonna have any food to eat they're here it's on us we can't touch the fields we're an agricultural society well we're gonna starve to death well how can you put a law telling people to ignore their fields and forget about the crops and then we have nothing to eat
First of all, I'm pretty sure that Judaism allows exceptions when required for survival. The Seventh Year follows the Sixth Year and the people would know if they had sufficient food stored to survive a year without a harvest. People aren't so stupid. If the Sixth Year harvest failed, they would have planted in the Seventh Year.
A law like this makes sense in a region where the land produces in six years sufficient to live for seven.
#4
39:27
and that's not cleft and that's the pig you you on the committee you you know that you know that for a fact you knew that 2,300 years ago you knew that there's only one the entire world that does not chew it's cut even though it has split hooves and that's the pig
If there were unknown animals like this, would God have named them for Moses and would the transmission for hundreds of years have preserved them to be written down?
It seems reasonable for the scribes to name these animals so that there would be no confusion. Perhaps it was part of the oral tradition.
There is nothing significant about the fact that all the exceptions happened to be present in the Middle East.
#5 (and last) Fins and Scales... Same as #4. However, I think the Rabbi may be mistaken and there are, in fact, animals which live in the water and have scales and no fins.
These are very weak arguments trying to use the fact that science hasn't contradicted the ancients on these minor details. However, science does contradict the ancients on much more significant details. It is clear that using later scientific discoveries more effectively disproves that the Torah is from God than proves it.
By the way, I was taught that I should not read the Torah like a science book. It functions in a very different way. The books are structured to teach lessons, not science.
The points you brought show that you are a very deep thinker. I commend you for taking the time to look into what's important to you. From my understanding, you feel that the Rabbis you've spoken to were not competent in answering your questions, however it seems that your soul has a burning desire to gain clarity in this area. I strongly recommend continuing your search for the Rabbi who will satisfy your thirst for clarity. I too, struggled until I found a Rabbi who gave me satisfactory answers to all my questions. I'm no Rabbi myself and I'm definitely not qualified to answer your questions, but I do believe that if you persevere you will find what you are looking for. Wishing you much success in all your endeavors.
Thank you for your comments.
As I said at the beginning of this thread of comments, I was surprised to learn that there are Jews who believe that the Torah was literally given to the Jews by God. This is not something that I was taught while growing up.
I am passionate about the topic because I believe that it can be destructive to society when people are justifying their actions based on what "God has commanded". Both Muslims and Christians have suffered greatly from such views. We call them "extremists". These extremists cast a shadow on those from a similar background who do not share their views.
It will be a challenge for Jews like me to create a separation from extreme Jewish positions while wanting, at the same time, to support Judaism unconditionally.
This article explains the foundation of life and the purpose of living in this world and not just the next. I read Rabbi Kehane's book called "A Fire In The Darkness" and it has opened my eyes to what life is truly about. Thank you
It often seems like - We - have been taught that G-D - IS OMNISCIENT - LOVING & CARING - etc., & ALSO to FEAR G-D - by those who lead us - through the various religious beliefs. We are also taught by those who teach us - the variety of WONDERFUL attributes that G-D has done & does now - with EXCITING STORIES etc.. However - when we EXPERIENCE that - all those wonderful things we were taught - SUDDENLY - are HARSHLY & even BRUTALLY INCONSISTENT - with what we're taught. It seems that - our LEADERS - come up with an offering of INTELLECTUAL RATIONALE - to EXPLAIN WHY (X) DIDN'T - DOESN'T HAPPEN - SO AS - to SAVE FACE - & their REPUTATION(s). Which still doesn't take away - the EXCRUCIATING - PAINFUL EXPERIENCE - we've been through - maybe more than once.
Important point Gershom. See what I replied above to ADS.
Your question presupposes that the Torah is not from Gd. However, if the Torah is from Gd, your comment needs to be adjusted from a claim that someone "came up" with these ideas or is "trying to save face" to a quest for a deeper appreciation of the harmony in a seemingly inconsistent and confusing reality. How to understand how an omniscient, loving ,caring Gd would create a world with such excruciatingly painful life experiences is the discussion that my article came to start. I encourage to continue your quest for understanding but to be open that, perhaps, the claims of a loving Gd were not "taught by those who lead us" but revealed by Gd Himself. In which case there is much depth to grasp beyond the façade of chaos.
Unfortunately - you missed my whole point. In my life's experiences with G-D - I - LIKE MANY OTHERS - have no doubt - about Him - or that He had Moses - write the Torah. However - unfortunately per Dvarim Ch. 4 - 1/2 & Ch. 13 - 1 - Prov. 30 - MEN - have over the thousands of years - have taught from their imaginations etc,. & give credit to - who - what etc,. - G-D is - or how HE does things. As I said - it's when these imaginary explanations from the leaders - DON'T WORK. Especially - for those who experience much difficulty - throughout their life. And they ask the MEN - who taught them. There is a PLETHORA - of save face rationalization from the leader(s) - as to WHY IT DIDN'T WORK. That's an answer from MEN - not G-D.
I apologize. I did not mean to miss your point. I read your comment a number of times and took it very seriously. I am sorry.
It still seems to me though that are making an assumption. Your claim is that over thousands of years men have taught from their imaginations. I realize you feel that way but how do you know they are teaching from their imaginations? Do you have evidence. Perhaps what they were teaching is exactly what GD meant.
I think your point was that since what these leaders taught "don't work" what they taught must not be from GD? Do you have an example of something the leaders taught that doesn't work? Perhaps I can explain it?
First - I refer you back to the point I made about what G-D said - in Dvarim. The evidence of leaders teaching from the imagination(s) - one can start with - the FALSE PROPHETS - of the Neviim. PLUS a host of other writings from religious beliefs. In my other life's experiences - I've been exposed to - monitoring/learning from other beliefs - & in Judaic classes - where the teachers - have reached into their imagination(s) - to try to explain - what they are THINKING G-D meant - by what He said - in the Written Torah. In which HE said - "DO NOT ADD TO - OR SUBTRACT FROM - WHAT I SAID - in the Torah". How & what to pray for & expect in our needs/circumstances - which all too often - go unfulfilled. Like others - I presume - you'll have an explanation - why it didn't work.
I think I might actually be agreeing with you this time, Gershom.
Religious leaders, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, often attempt to explain real world events in terms of a Divine Plan; something that most of them admit is unknowable. This is inconsistent.
The real world often does not behave the way it "should" based on theological assumptions. Our theological assumptions must be wrong. We need to be able to reject these false assumptions rather than having to listen to excuses for them.
It should also be noted that the presumption of an unknowable Divine Plan is of no value when making decisions about how to lead our lives. It is a worthless idea only used retrospectively to explain events when we don't have or don't want a better explanation.
Again, the relevant question is "did GD wrote the Torah?". If He did, this point is irrelevant. The claim that leaders "attempt to explain" is a theory that you must prove. You feel that way but can you prove it? If you want to maintain, as a fact, that leaders make up things you will need to bring evidence to your claim. Until then, you are ironically spinning theories like you claim the leaders do and calling them facts as you say they do.
Again, there is compelling evidence to the fact that GD wrote the Torah. Until you have honestly explored the evidence we are going in circles.
Reg, an unknowable plan and making decisions, you would be right if the One with the plan didnt give us a guide. But the Torah is His guide. The quest is... did He write it...
I was simply responding to what you wrote: "So why would a loving God cause me pain? Because He loves me." That's your attempt to explain everything painful that happens to us. There's nothing theoretical in my comment.
Again, I ask you... is the belief of the divine origin of the Torah essential to Judaism? I have not been able to find a comprehensive study of this question. Have Jews always believed this? Are there different movements within Judaism with different opinions on this question? I have argued with Muslims that mainstream Jews have a more realistic view of their traditional texts than Muslims do. Was I wrong to argue in that way? Are Jews like me who regard the Torah as a treasured collection of Jewish traditions "heretical"?
Yes I think so. There is an authentic, original Judaism from the Torah from G-d. Whatever the Torah says, is Judaism. Once you disagree with some parts, change some of the original interpretations, that is now a new religion, so I don't think that can be called [Original] Judaism anymore. They might hold their own new beliefs, so they can be their own new religion if they want, but its a DIFFERENT religion now. These might be actual born Jewish people with these new ideas, but they have to admit they believe in something DIFFERENT than the original Judaism. (Even if they are a larger group or more "mainstream", its still a deviation from the original definition of the religion)
I am actually a convert to Judaism and one reason I made that decision was because of the Passover story.
I thought about these things a lot because I used to be a Christian (from childhood) and in my adulthood when I thought about these topics in depth I realized Christianity didn't add up. That DID NOT automatically mean I believed in Judaism. If anything, I was more skeptical and analytical than ever before. I investigated a lot of beliefs, including the option to believe in nothing. Anyways I realized that born Jewish people today hear about Passover from their parents, who heard it from their parents, and so on until we are all the way back to the people who were actually there and actually experienced the plagues, leaving Egypt, miracles in the desert, splitting of the sea, hearing G-d speak, and receiving the Torah.
So why did a group of people (not one person) pass down a story to the 2nd generation? Did they make it up together as a group, and decide, we are sticking to this story no matter what, no one is allowed to admit we made it up? Did they all have the same weird dream and weren't sure what was real and what was the dream anymore, and passed it on to their children? Did they all have the same hallucination and passed the story on? Or did this actually happen? If this was made up, someone would have spoken up in the first generation and refused to pass it on to the 2nd generation. Even if people claim, the Torah is made up, they are sharing over an ancient tale of fantasy just like the other religions, I don't think its so easy to say that when its a GROUP of people.
If a story is being passed on and the source of this story is ONE person making a claim, then we can simply decide we don't believe him, he's lying, he made it up, he's hallucinating, etc. But Passover goes back to a group a people, so why did the original group pass on their story if its made up? I also realized other religions that are not nearly as old as Judaism don't have such a chain. Christianity is "only" 2000 years old and we don't have people today who say their ancestors were there and saw everything take place and in every generation they passed on the story, and we can trace it back to an original group of witnesses. That is NOT the history of Christianity and no one denies that. But that is the history of Judaism. Born Jews know they are Jewish because their parents told them
Wow! The article gives much clarity on the often avoided subject of pain.
I recently received the book "A Fire in the Darkness" as a gift and I am thoroughly enjoying! The book has many beautiful insights on how to serve Hashem when in pain, and to live as an observant Jew in every circumstance.
One thing about pain is the feeling of pleasurable relief when the pain is gone.
Hi Doug, Actually Judaism does not call that pleasure. Judaism calls that comfort. Comfort is the absence of pain. Pleasure is something essentially desirable. The feeling of having removed a splinter is comfort not pain. A relationship is pleasurable. As I mentioned in my article, pleasure necessarily comes from effort, which is anything but comfortable. G-d wants us to have pleasure, not comfort, and through the uncomfortable challenges of self development one can achieve the high level pleasure of happiness that comes from bringing out one's potential.
Thank you for helping to make out this point.
When we use the word "Love" today, we miss the basic meaning of the word due to cultural influences which do not take into account the reality God created. Agape Love is who God is. The best we can define this attribute is, reasonable action with the express purpose of honoring the one it is directed towards. This responsible action has the highest discipline and comes from within it. It is not based on emotions and feelings in the moment of action, but emotions and feelings can be a byproduct of this supreme action.
When considering what is and what is not "Responsible" we as created beings cannot comprehend it fully, we remotely come to know God's position of responsibility through redemption.
I hate god for hurting my family and me. Years and years not knowing WHY. Why would he love us while inflicting the pain??? I see that he does not love us PERIOD!!!!!!
I appreciate the point you are making and the anger you are feeling. It is very, very difficult to make sense of the fact that a loving G-d could hurt someone. I couldn't agree more. The point to process, however, is that giving someone pain and loving them are not contradictions. This was the point I was making in my article. Loving parents WILL hurt their children BECAUSE they love them and know that what can come from the pain is worth the pain. The more we can integrate that concept into our worldview the more the pain in our lives takes on a different shape and flavor. Thank you for your insight.
Wow. Unbelievable article!
Picked up Rabbi Kahane's book "A Fire In The Darkness" and it addresses everything our generation needs to hear! A masterpiece on growing through pain and suffering! Highly recommended!
OMG someone literally just bought me this book as a gift and now I'm so excited to read it!!!!! looks amaaaazing
Some Jewish scholars say that it's all G-d's plan and we can't expect to know what the plan is, but isn't it at least as possible that G-d set things in motion as best he could, but bad things randomly happen, which aren't attributable to the Plan? Perhaps such things cause G-d sadness, too?
Some years ago I read about a father who took his 20-something daughter to downtown Chicago, during the winter, for her job interview. As they were about to enter a building, a chunk of ice and snow fell from the top of the building and killed the young woman, right in front of her father. Freak accident, yes. Orchestrated by G-d? Doubtful.
It's easier to imagine that Divine intervention did something good for someone, although aren't good things just the other side of the same coin?
Shalom Gary. Thank you for this point. The Torah takes a clear stance that G-d created, supervises, maintains, and sustains every detail of this world. This is one of the 13 Principles of Faith delineated by Maimonides. Therefore, nothing happens randomly. Important to keep in mind, as well, is that pain is not bad indeed divine intervention ONLY does good for someone. The fact that it hurts doesn't mean its bad. That was the thrust of my article.
You are touching on a deep and beautiful, albeit complicated, area of Torah philosophy which you clearly have a head for! The Torah stance is clear, however. I encourage you to explore it further. Thank you again.
Why do really, really bad things happen? When I was becoming baalat teshuva, I spent much time in vain looking for answers in the seminary library.
Then, I was bringing a kitten I rescued to the vet. The kitten was frightened being in a cage and in unfamiliar surroundings. I suddenly realized that if we both lived a million years, I would never be able to explain to the kitten that he will be back home soon, or what a vaccination is. Likewise, since Hashem is Infinite, there is an infinite gap between my comprehension of reality and Hashem's mind. Therefore, what I actually understand about reality is pretty much zero.
So the answer to the question, is------ we would not understand the answer even if it was revealed to us. Maybe in the afterlife.
There is no mention of the excruciating pain millions of people feel daily from unrelenting and unresolvable physical pain. It is depressing, debilitating, and defeating. Many thoughts turn to suicide just to stop the pain or praying for death so it will stop. If everything we have is from Hashem, why does he cause so much needless pain and ruin so many lives with this?
Thank you for bringing this up. You are correct that more discussion is needed to adequately address this point. It is well discussed in Jewish philosophy and with a commitment to research the topic in depth, one will find the answers to be satisfying and complete. There are a number of books, many in English, that address the topic of suffering more broadly. My book "A Fire in the Darkness" is one of them.
I think the key point of my article to process is that no pain is "needless". Even if it seems that way. Divine calculations are infinite as He is. What can come from the pain is always worth the pain and that's why He puts us through it. This was the
Thank you again for your insight.
The author of this article clearly knows how to explain deep concepts.
I want to point out that R' Meir B. Kahane did not write in any place here that God doesn't care that the individual is in pain. This is an important point to recognize as I believe this is what causes many individuals to get so furiously angry with God. When we realize though that the fact that pain can lead to tremendous insight and greatness DOES NOT IN ANY WAY mean that all the pain, hurt, and tears are not valid, understood, and cared about, we can begin working through all the pain, and WHILST feeling it all and dealing with it, become bigger people.
Thank you T.
Beautiful and accurate.
I specifically loved the part about how we don't truly mind pain, we just mind pointless pain
As one who has spent a year in deep immersion in the concepts of faith and self-improvement and our purpose in this world, I have come to a great understanding of ideas like these and I agree whole-heartedly with Rabbi Meir B. Kahane. I believe he and Rabbi Shapira are very on point in their perspective on pain through the lens of the Torah. I will certainly be recommending this read to friends and family!
This article came at good timing. Unfortunately my grandmother passed away when she was run over by a car just last week. Processing that is really hard for me and it brought up a lot of burning questions about god and pain and life in general and this article seemed to shed a bit of light. What does Judaism recommend I do to process this big loss in my life - is there some kind of spiritual fix? What is Judaism's take on the new wave of mindfulness/ therapy/ healing?
So truly sorry for your loss. Im not sure if you realized, but you answered your first question yourself... is there some type of spiritual fix? Sometimes we can get so caught up in the physical aspects of life, that sometimes the spiritual aspects get dimissed, neglected, overlooked, or all the worse denied. We are very much created physical AND spiritual beings. G-ds words are the source of all creation, including us.Balance of both is health! His words are the ultimate source of nurishment, and healing for both body & soul. May your spirit & body soon find & know peace & comfort in the memory of your beloved grandmother!
I am very pained to hear about your grandmother. The way that she died makes it all the more difficult. I am pleased if my article helped you, although, needless to say, it doesn't take away the pain.
The great masters of mussar and chasidus, including the Piacetzner Rebbe, teach that a significant contributor to healing comes from accepting the painful reality for what it is and not attempting to avoid it or deny its painful impact. Therapy and mindfulness are excellent tools for doing that and are encouraged. Such work is essentially spiritual work as it is being real with oneself, which is the essence of spiritual development.
Hashem should give you strength and comfort. May this difficult bump in your life build you.
This was eye-opening article. As someone who has always struggled with the concept of pain and God's goodness, this is thought-provoking. The idea that pain is not necessarily bad is revolutionary. Thank you Rabbi Meir B. Kahane
Pain certainly informs a person they are alive.
It can also inform a person to create change in their life.
In this plane of existence, pain is a very useful tool to assess where you have been, where you are, and where you wish/need to go on your life journey.
Pain is sometimes a necessary tool to create immediate, needed change in your life.
As a 30 yr old woman & mother that lives with a chronic condition that severely impacts my life & with symptoms that don't leave me a minutes peace & constant pain, ive come to understand that i cant understand!
since in this world there are no answers & in the next world there are no questions, im not ready to go up there yet to find out the answers!
So yes it is SO hard to be in such a constant place of pain, physically & emotionally, but ive learned that apparently this is what my soul needs to go through to bring out all the hidden goodness thats inside of it, even though it hurts!
I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I also deal with daily pain from inflammed spinal nerves that may never heal. Sometimes I can't lie or even sit down. May Hashem bless you with a full recovery.
I want a God of Love and not a God of Pain.
Thank you Robert for this point.
I think what's important to process is that love and pain are not contradictions. A G-d of love may cause pain at times... if what can come from the pain the pain is worth the pain. That was the crux of my article. In a world of increasing comfort, this may feel radical. But the more we can reframe our perspective on pain the more we can accept a good G-d who causes it. All the best.
My feeling is that G-d sends tests/challenges/punishments for many different reasons. Sometimes they are personal and sometimes for "the greater good." I suffer from these, but at the same time I ask myself what I need to work on while being in this situation. I usually come up with something, but often I try and find I just cannot bring myself to do what I think I should be doing. I fail. But then I comfort myself by thinking, maybe not today, but maybe tomorrow.
Thank you, Bracha. This was a beautiful point and inspired me.
To clarify one point you made the tests and challenges G-d tests are never exclusively for "the greater good". They may overlap with a greater good but will ALWAYS be for the good (best!) of the one being tested as well.
One more thing, the use of the word punishment concerning G-d is not precise. The English word punishment doesn't match any concept in Judaism. The word "onesh" does not translate as punishment but rather "response" (from the Hebrew la'anot) as opposed to punishment which suggests raw suffering as a consequence of wrongdoing. G-d may need to respond (la'anot) to our mistakes as a means of building us. But punishment is not a Jewish concept.
Keep thinking deeply and keep growing.
This argument feels hollow. Some pain is too huge to withstand and learn from. Some pain is the result of illness or injury that will be fatal. Some pain comes to innocent children too young to understand any lesson in it. Yes, pain from working out or medical procedures is necessary and may strengthen us. Otherwise, I find this article very disturbing and unhelpful.
Thank you for making this point. You are correct that this article only deals with a sliver of a much, much bigger and deeper issue and was only meant as a starting point for further thinking. The questions you are asking are the next steps in the discussion and you are correct for pointing this out. Our religion is rich with resources on this topic. My book "A Fire in the Darkness" is only one of them. I encourage you to continue your research. As painful and difficult as this subject is there is much beauty in understanding it.
What garbage! I can’t be angry with good because I don’t be;I eve in him/her/ it, but I get angry with people who say such awful things! I have never experienced excruciating pain of cancer or torture, but I have experienced the pain of losing a child whose children also experienced the death of losing their mother. The god of the Bible is cruel, jealous, sadistic, selfish, vengeful, you name it. It’s a god who sanctions genocide in Canaan, in Sodom, in many other places. If that’s LOVE, keep it. The god of the New Testament is somewhat more gentle. But keep your religion. I’m still searching.
I agree that the notion of a good G-d who hurts is an incredibly difficult concept to wrap one's head around.
I think the key to doing so is what you wrote at the end: "I'm still searching." The issues you raise regarding Canaan and Sadom are very real issues. Losing a child... unfathomable pain... All of these beg the question of how it is that a good G-d would/could/does/will do things like that. Indeed this is one of the most complex areas of Jewish philosophy. However, there are answers and a truth seeker will find them. Searching means keeping all roads as options and availing one's self of all resources available. Judaism is an exceedingly deep religion. One who honestly searches will understand. I hope this article opens avenues in your continued search.
We are not children. We are grown adults and this argument that we don't know any better and G-d inflicts pain on us to teach us is bunk. Going to the gym is not the same as abuse which most certainly is pain. Nothing is said about trauma and its' after-effects either. Why can't we grow without pain? Is G-d a sadist? Not buying it.
The point you are making is crucial. Thank you. You are correct, this article does not deal with the issue you raised which is an important one. The point of this article was only to open up the discussion. But like any area of wisdom, real clarity will only come from a commitment to do thorough research and investigate the subject in depth. There are many resources available to help delve into this topic more deeply. My book "A Fire In the Darkness" is one of them (see "About the Author" above). You can also chat with a Rabbi on this website or find a rabbi of your own. Thank you again for raising this point.
I don’t have time to have pains cuz I have to take care of family etc.. I get angry at god. I never have answer why this and that. I do not have stamina as the frum people who claim it. I have not connected to god since I became frum 30 years. God gives us too many problems and I cannot handle anymore. I don’t care the phase ‘god do not give more problem than needed’ but enough is enough!
I appreciate your point very much. Life and its challenges often feel way, way, too big and overwhelming. I could not have said it better: Enough is enough.
I think the starting point for being able to manage is what was said in this article:
Your greatness is worth fighting for. And the person you can be is bigger than the challenges and well worth the effort. G-d is on our side. G-d knows that if we grow from our journey we will say that who we became was worth the pain.
Dig deep. You are stronger than you think. And who can be is more incredible than you could ever imagine.
It’s called “Life”! C’est la Vie!
YES!